on language fail and accountability

[harborshore]

Look. I've been seeing an argument made in a lot of places about the recent (and the not-so-recent) language fail in bandom, and I've been talking about it in a number of other people's journals, and I'm just—



It's not hard not to use slurs. It's not. That's not about policing language, that's a bare minimum of decency. Seriously. To imply that it's too high of a standard to hold MCR to is frankly insulting to them. It's not about expecting them to be super feminist. It's about not using harmful words that are more or less widely acknowledged as such (the fact that transphobic words are less well-known is a serious problem, but it doesn't mean that the fact that the word is hugely problematic is any less so because there's a chance they previously didn't know). Can we not imply or flat-out say that men are unable to do this? Particularly not dudes who previously have shown themselves as somewhat aware of problematic things in the scene?





And yeah, Z's recent interview was also hugely problematic. Of course it was. It's so emblematic of the way women are taught that they have to be the right kind of woman to make it, which I imagine is amplified by what is a very sexist music scene, and it makes me so goddamn sad to see it here too. Dammit, Z. I've emailed The Like pointing out that the way to have a productive discussion about issues like "women in music," which, it sounded like some of the interview was about that, is really really not to lash out at other female musicians for the way they dress, using a slur while doing so. That's harsh and harmful and I'm not down with that.





But fandom, fandom, if you're going to hold Z accountable for that (and I'm really not telling you not to!), then please refrain from making excuses for the boys. I'm tired of seeing Vicky-T yelled at every time she does anything at all, whereas Gabe is regularly offensive (yes, I find him endearing too, but seriously) and no one really talks about it, or for that matter seeing Lyn-Z blamed for the fact that Gerard is now apparently less feminist than before, like somehow he doesn't make his own decisions about what he says or how he markets his album. Or anything. Everyone should be held accountable, otherwise you're judging a woman a million times more harshly than you're judging the men, and that's not really feminist either, hmm? The scene can be such a sexist place, but we have to talk about the fact that it is, HOW it is sexist, and what can be done about it, or nothing will ever change. It doesn't mean you can't continue to love your favorites--after all, I still very much love The Like--it just means that sometimes we have to talk about the fact that they're not perfect.

Comments

[languisity.livejournal.com]

You know, I have to wonder, with the way fandom is, how many people want to say something but hide it behind flock. I've had a few friends make locked posts with seventy million disclaimers so as not to rock the boat or harsh squee. So, at the end of the day, all you're left with are the diehard "they can do nothing wrong" fans who are the loudest. I think there's a definite issue with how female musicians are treated in comparison to their male counterparts, but there's also something to be said for what happens to the fans who try to call attention to the fucked up things the dudes do on a regular basis. People aren't going to talk much if they know they will be shouted down. Couple that with the fact that women tend to be easy targets (acknowledging the disparity between callouts, not saying many of aren't deserved), and the whole thing is just one huge reinforcement of misogyny.


I can't believe people are essentially arguing how hard it is not to use slurs, though? Way to insult people's intelligence, guys.

[impertinence.livejournal.com]

there have been a lot of "well we can't expect MCR to know about feminism" comments, which...I mean, I don't expect them to be able to bust out a definition of "kyriachy". But knowing your fans are mostly young and female, and then busting out one of the more misogynistic slurs in the American vernacular? That's not Feminism 101, that's fifth grade detention.

[languisity.livejournal.com]

Ah, okay. Geez. Yeah, I don't understand that argument at all. You don't need to know about activism to know that some things are just damn offensive and likely shouldn't be said. That excuse is just flimsy.

[harborshore.livejournal.com]

I just saw this, and FYI I love you. Fifth grade detention, yes, precisely this.

[harborshore.livejournal.com]

As Imp said, there's been some well-they're-just-boys sort of defenses floating around, and a hell of a lot of ignoring. And if you're right about the ignoring being a product of fear of being overrun, then that's horribly tragic. (I know of one case where that's certainly true, fuck.) We HAVE to be able to talk about these things. I do understand doing it under flock where one might feel it's easier to be honest, but every other fandom has been able to have this discussion (not without a lot of GAH going on, but they've HAD the discussion). I feel like it's part of the same mechanism--we are so hard on each other, this group-consisting-mostly-of-women, and that hurts.


Ahaha, I know, right?