harborshore | and no, we're done

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weight

and no, we're done

This post touches at something that has bothered me since last summer. Namely, weight discussions in this fandom and how not okay it is to, as

sunsetmog puts it, equate "weight with someone's happiness" and evaluate someone's health based on how his clothes fit. No. Fuck no. And please don't tweet them and ask about it. PLEASE. I get that it would be done out of concern, but.

In order to explain why that would be bad, I'm going to do that thing I do when I talk about myself in order to make a point, because it's a "text" that is fair to use. However, I'm not the point of the discussion and it obviously applies to wider problems than the current discussion at hand. Trigger warning for discussion of weight issues.

In the summer of 2009, as a lot of you know, while visiting my ex in Asia, I got sick. They never figured out what it was, but it involved problems with my digestive system, a fair amount of pain, bouts of fever and aches, etc. It went on for about a month before going away, and then it came back in December of the same year, and I've had short and small relapses off and on since then. I'm a lot better today, even if I still have to be careful about eating enough of some things in order to stay functional (it's kind of like how pneumonia can leave you with sensitive lungs, my doctor said).

But when it was at its worst, I lost a lot of weight. Something like 25 pounds, if I had to guess, though I never weighed myself. For obvious reasons. Because it quickly became evident to me that

a) some people were going to compliment me, which was bothersome because I couldn't eat and really wanted to and somehow the compliments made it sound like I shouldn't be eating if this was the result,

b) some people were going to think I was getting an eating disorder and tell me so, which was also hard because at the time I really wasn't and I wanted to eat but the incessant discussion of it was very very pervasive,

c) I really didn't need a specific number to measure myself against because there was no way I wasn't going to gain weight again. Because the weight I lost I lost while I wasn't eating. That weight will always always come back.

It's been a year since my last major relapse. I've gained some of the weight back. Enough that it bothers me sometimes, because that's the nature of the beast and when you've noticed yourself slipping closer to some sort of fucked-up ideal of your body looking like--I don't know, it's work to reconcile yourself to the way you look now. Which, okay, if majorly fucked, because people who haven't seen me in a while still notice the weight loss and I have to preempt the compliments/concerns by rehashing the illness AGAIN. Before they can say more than "Wow, you've lost weight".

And so the point, because this isn't actually about me: fluctuations in weight happen for many reasons. In my case, it was an unidentified tropical virus, but it was interpreted as everything under the sun by the world, and that was hard. Just seeing me made people assume things, people who knew me and people who didn't, and that was--I'm not a fan. My sister spent half an hour discussing my supposed weight issues with me (ETA: after seeing me for the first time in months, so she hadn't observed me around food as much as she was noticing my dramatic weight loss) and I was really anguished by the end, because she knows me better than pretty much anyone, and surely if she says I have food issues, I have them?

But no. I was in pain. I'm mostly not anymore, and I fluctuate between being careful and going "fuck it!" and having a hamburger at the airport and then it's the best thing in the whole world and I can take a little pain because I have reserves if I'm careful sometimes. But it's work, it's hard work to keep enjoying food, and to keep from being anxious about it (because I was when every bite hurt to get down), and most people don't help.

So please. Stop. And please don't twitter Zack or Spencer or Brendon or Dallon or anyone and ask, because I will bet you anything that a flood of people already have. And don't ask why he isn't smiling where he can see it either, because--just don't.

In short, it's very difficult to gauge whether or not someone's weight fluctuations depend on their health (or how they depend on their health), and sometimes even knowing them super well isn't enough. So be careful with yourself and with others, whether they're people you know or not.

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*hugs* This is a great post. &you;

*hugs right back* Thank you, bb. ♥

*hugs*

I seem to have missed this entire discussion.

Well, with every new picture of them someone will inevitably comment on Spencer's weight and it often escalates a bit. It's frustrating.

The same goes for PStump. Hence why I never EVER read comments on any comm unless I want to die of rage.

The weight thing I totally get and agree with full-heartedly. But what I also see mentioned a lot is not speculating about his state of happiness based on whether or not he's smiling in pictures, and that kind of escapes me. Sure, there are a lot of reasons why he's not smiling (stress! jet lag! airports! aesthetics of photo shoots!), but at the moment the discussion (note: I'm only following you and sunset_mogs, so I might be missing out on a lot of this) seems to be geared to not commenting on anything at all. Which, y'know, RPF fandom. It's not like we have a lot to use besides photos, whether they're from professional shoots or candids, interviews and other appearances.

Mainly I'm just worried about Spencer. Here's where I admit to my helper's complex. I want to make him a sandwich and tell him to take a nap and eat more vegetables. /o\

And, to end this on a light note: a) he seems ready to grow the pornstache into a real beard, of which I FULLY approve, and b) I now gotta go and write some more porn. Porn, my friend, is always the answer.

(I have this random inclination on making a weight-positive challenge. We've got stuff for female characters, PoC characters, but I haven't heard of one where we deal with characters who do fit into today's society's restricted view of "normal weight". Penelope Garcia deserves some love, too. Somebody get on with that. Because the comments when Patrick lost weight (which we know from Pete was on purpose and something Patrick wanted for himself) were so rage-inducing I had to step away from the internet.)

Well, first of all, RPS fandom for me doesn't really--I mean, it's hugely different if someone chooses to interpret the current canon a certain way and writes a fic based on it, compared to if someone decides that their interpretation is the only right one and is in fact reality. Because, I mean:

But what I also see mentioned a lot is not speculating about his state of happiness based on whether or not he's smiling in pictures, and that kind of escapes me.

The problem with that is sort of inherent in what you say there: speculating about someone's emotional state based on pictures. It's not that I don't understand feeling a little worried about them when they look pale and tired--and I do think Brendon looks pale and tired too--but they looked exactly the same in the studio pictures. Everything we've heard about the recording of this album tells us it was a stressful process, and we know FBR considers Panic one of their bigger bands. I don't see the point of further speculation about Spencer's emotional state beyond that, like if he's broken up with his girlfriend or something, I don't even know.

And so part of it is my RPS line--I'm not okay with the really invasive tone that the discussion about his emotional state tends to take. That's not--he's a person. Being in the public eye doesn't take away one's right to have emotions in private.

(A weight-positive challenge would be cool! You should do that. I'd even more like to see more discussion of How To Write Naked People Like Real People Without It Being Idealized Or Offensive, because we do write about characters who don't necessarily fit the perfect body mold (Pete/Patrick was an enormous pairing, after all), but we don't always describe their bodies in the way they actually look.)

I totally am craving all of the Brendon/Spencer h/c fic. /o\

'm not okay with the really invasive tone that the discussion about his emotional state tends to take. That's not--he's a person. Being in the public eye doesn't take away one's right to have emotions in private.

WORD. That is a lesson many people don't seem to get. They get to choose what they want to show us. I mean, some of them do. Pete would surely love to get rid of all the paparazzis. /o\

(I really like descriptions of people's bellies. I could spend hours reading that. Damn, now I want fic where Brendon bites down gently on Spencer's hipbones and noses his stomach and kisses his thighs and is all starry-eyed about Spencer. Universe, get on with that.)

(deleted comment)

It's more that it's been appearing in comments and in comms whenever there's a picture of Spencer--it's weird. And irritating. ♥

i apologise if any of my posts/comments have been triggery and/or insensitive. i wasn't aware of this angle. now i am.

♥ No guilt, bb, it happens. And this came from a lot of places.

Yes yes yes. ♥

(Not to play misery Olympics, but this happened a lot on the MCR side too last year when Gerard revealed his ~new body~. It happens a lot with Frank, too, who has serious medical issues that we all know about and yet fangirls still do the concern trolling. It's really enraging.)

&you;

(It really is very aggravating, argh.)

Co-fucking-signed, thank you. My mother says she has a policy of never commenting on weight loss, because there's always the chance that the answer to "what did you do?" will be "chemo". There are many, many reasons someone could have lost a lot of weight in a short period, some of them coming from deliberate choices and some of them really not, and even leaving aside the issue of body-policing, it's just freaking rude, because there's every chance the cause might be something they don't particularly want to talk about.

(For that matter, being constantly told "what the hell is wrong with you? You're too skinny, eat something!" by friends was not really helpful when my ED was at its most intense. Shaming me for starving myself down to weight in the double digits: a completely effective solution to countering the body-shaming society at large was giving me for not looking like that! In no way would it leave me with the conclusion that no matter what I did my body was disgusting and worthless and I could not possibly win. Even when the reason someone is super-skinny actually is ED rather than the many many other things that could have weight loss as a side effect, more body-shaming is not helpful.)

♥ Yeah. People flinch quite a bit when I go "Oh, yeah, I had an unidentified tropical virus and was sick off and on for months," and I do do it on purpose because I find the commenting so obnoxious. I never ever comment on weight loss--I've been an RA, so sometimes I've had to recommend monitoring of students, but that was done based on many more things than appearance. Many many many more.

What do you mean, how is "eat something" not a helpful comment? *facepalm* More body-shaming: really not a great idea when you're talking to anyone at all, let alone when you're talking to someone who has more than the run-of-the-mill everyday kind (I love the society we live in, truly, I do). I'm glad you're not in that mental place anymore. *hugs*

♥ This post is a good post.

HI BB!SPENCER. Oh my god, so awesome.

Yes, I suddenly realized what was bothering me--it's one thing to feel like they're pale and in need of sleep or whatever, but the weight comments, augh, ick.

BB!Spencer is the prettiest. *_*

No, exactly, I completely agree. We've been talking about how tired they look because, well, they do look tired; that's something that you can see and draw a conclusion from that's probably true. But there are so many reasons why Spencer might have lost weight that people shouldn't just randomly decide that it means whatever about him.

So great! :D

Ugh, exactly. And weight loss in general--it's not something you want to speculate about.

*fistbump* Oh yeah. It took me thyroid pills to gain a little weight two years ago, but every doctor who saw me and tried to figure out why I wouldn't gain with food always assumed I had an ED. It was just easier, you know? No matter if my bloodwork had always been perfect (except for when they checked T3-T4 at last, of course) and I was feeling alright.

When I got pregnant, I first lost a bunch of kg due to hyperemesis gravidarum, but of course it had to be me not eating. Suuuure. As if I could ever put my baby's life in danger by not eating - and what for anyway? Even after I delivered my beautiful, healthy and by no means small son they had to double test my blood to see if everything was in order. And surprise, surprise, it was.

Now I'm back again at my previous weight (shit. I really hoped to keep most of it), maybe a little less since an awful indigestion (please to be notice the irony here) kicked me in the ass last Monday, and my son's pediatrician has been dangling formula over my head for quite a while, since 'my milk can't be that nutrient'.

For fuck's safe. Time to find another pediatrician for me and to stop being ignorant judgey assholes for people in general.

Assumptions: NEVER A GOOD PLAN. Even if they happen to be correct, the last thing you want to be doing is shaming someone about it--as

cidercupcakes pointed out above, more body-shaming is never a good idea. And it's more aggravating when it's coming from people who should know better! FFS, trained medical professionals.

Edited 2011-01-30 16:47 (UTC)

♥ ♥ ♥

&YOU;

Yes. Yes yes yes yes yes.

♥

This isn't a topic I can engage with with any degree of grace or rationality, so I'm just going to say thank you.

*hugs* ETA: I'm glad it served some sort of purpose for you. ALL of the love, bb.

Edited 2011-01-30 20:10 (UTC)

Motherfucking SERIOUSLY. I was really sick for the first few months of last year and I lost around 15-20 pounds fairly suddenly. I was in constant pain all the time, and if I complained at all to some of my family (not the family I live with, thankfully) all I would get was "Well, you LOOK fantastic, look at all that weight you've lost!" which was the triple whammy of "You weighed too much before," "Being thin is more important than being healthy," and "You can't possibly be that sick because you don't look sick."

And then on the other hand, there were people who were positive I was binging and purging, and that my sickness was mostly faked so I could get away with it and have an excuse for throwing up. There's just... no way to win, ugh.

Basically: YES, THIS. This is (obviously) something I'm really sensitive about and some of the comments I've been seeing lately have been really disheartening. Thanks for this post, bb. ♥

DEAR GOD. Yeah, that sounds about like what people kept/keep doing to me. There's no way to win, precisely. *hugs* And it's such hard work to stave off things so that one can eat normally and feel normal about gaining the weight back (WHICH ONE OUGHT TO DO, because the illness weight isn't something one should strain to keep off--it's the fuel your body took to repair itself, ffs).

All of the hugs. ♥

Ughhhh, yes. :( I felt so weird about gaining the weight back and it was so strange, because I've normally got crazy great self-esteem. I just felt so uncomfortable all the time, and it was even worse because none of my clothes fit me right anymore and I hated even going out because I just felt so awkward and WRONG. Ughhhhhhh PEOPLE. :(

Same to you, bb! ♥♥♥

PEOPLE >:( You can't win in this. My solution was essentially to become really involved in cooking food and making things I liked and stuff, which seems to have worked in terms of me still loving food as much as I ever did. Thankfully. But it took a lot of work, and people weren't helping.

LOVE.

i'm sorry people are assholes, bb. *hugs*

aside from general inappropriateness of discussing somebody's weight separately and in relation to their mental/physical state that you're absolutely right about, there's a serious line between speculating about somebody based on their public messages (as

eledhwenlin said above, that's what we do here: oh, ryan and spencer and brendon had a dinner together, are they friends still/again?) and bringing this speculation directly to them like these people who apparently tweet them about their weight (what the everloving fuck, seriously) or 'ryden exists' or mental state or whatever. either you're seeing them as characters based on their public personas, in which case mind the fourth wall, or you're seeing them as people, in which case mind their motherfucking privacy. this is just - beyond the pale.

Personally, I'm not that comfortable with the speculation about someone's emotional state based on pictures (outside of fic, I mean)--because the tone of it often feels invasive and weird to me, for the reasons I stated above, whereas being happy that a picture of Brendon and Ryan exist, you know, because the photo exists and that hints that the split maybe wasn't a gaping chasm. Does that make sense? But I get that YMMV, that's the nature of RPS.

Yes. Just. Yes.

I am fat. I am okay with that. I also believe that it is not my job to police anyone's body. What is so difficult about that?

I have no fucking clue, but yes. ♥

The world is fucked. There is enough bad things happening without hating on SSV.

Thanks for sharing this, and reminding us to be mindful ♥

&you;

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